From Bill James's site:
About Mick's doubles-per-ball-in-play: Part of why he only hit an average amount is, HE DIDN'T. A lot of what's been said on here is mistaken, or at least misleading, because it's right only to the extent that it compares him to all of history rather than to his own time and place. His own % of doubles-per-ball-in-play was 5.9%; the league average, for the period of his career, was somewhere between 4.8-4.9%. So, whatever answer we try to give for why Mick 'only hit an average % of doubles' is whatever the answer is for the 1950's-60's in general (and to a slight extent also, the AL in particular, since it had a few percent fewer doubles than the NL).
Asked by: MarisFan61
_________________________
See my previous post:
Mickey Mantle hit few doubles ... or did he? Thursday, December 31, 2015
I tried the Bill James method on batters with at least 350 home runs...
Mantle's rank with the James method is 77... out of 93. Mick's rank is not high enough for James to conclude that Mantle was in the middle of some reasonable pack of peers...
2B/BIP percent (James method); Mantle 5.83%
2B/Hits percent (my method); Mantle 14.24%
James/mine:
Ave | 6.85% | 18.51% |
Min | 4.39% | 13.24% |
Max | 9.70% | 25.36% |
Bottom line: which method makes more sense:
Mine: 2B/Hits
James: 2B/BIP
________________________
Ten contemporary sluggers with worse doubles rates than Mantle using the James method:
Willie McCovey, Al Kaline, Billy Williams, Eddie Mathews, Rocky Colavito, Gil Hodges, Ernie Banks, Harmon Killebrew, Yogi Berra, Norm Cash
Using my method, the only three worse than Mantle: Killebrew, Cash, Howard.
However, 13 contemporary sluggers with better doubles rates than Mantle using the James method:
Ted Williams, Willie Stargell, Stan Musial, Dick Allen, Reggie Jackson, Tony Perez, Frank Robinson, Johnny Mize, Duke Snider, Orlando Cepeda, Carl Yastrzemski, and just a little behind Hank Aaron and Willie Mays.
I'm not sure what point James is making by comparing Mantle to all batters, including pitchers who batted in both leagues in the years Mantle played: 1951-1968.
Mantle's career splits for doubles/hits:
home: 13.5%
road: 15%
It wasn't Yankee Stadium.
Mick's highest rates were in his first three seasons. Obviously, as he matured doubles turned into home runs but that would tend to be true for other home run hitters, too. Then in decline, home runs might turn into doubles ... or outs.
I think around 1958 Mantle just stopped trying to stretch, either on orders or on his own.
Since 1936 players with at least 350 home runs:
- 47 hit more home runs than doubles
- 42 hit more doubles than home runs.
Players between 1936 and 1975 with at least 350 home runs:
More home runs than doubles:
Rk | Player | HR | 2B | From | To | Age | G | PA | AB | R | H | 3B | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | Tm | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Hank Aaron | 745 | 616 | 1954 | 1975 | 20-41 | 3213 | 13633 | 12093 | 2152 | 3709 | 98 | 2262 | 1367 | 292 | 1345 | 32 | 21 | 119 | 320 | 240 | 72 | .307 | .375 | .559 | .934 | *9783DH/45 | MLN-ATL-MIL |
2 | Willie Mays | 660 | 523 | 1951 | 1973 | 20-42 | 2992 | 12496 | 10881 | 2062 | 3283 | 140 | 1903 | 1464 | 192 | 1526 | 44 | 13 | 91 | 251 | 338 | 103 | .302 | .384 | .557 | .941 | *8H/39675 | NYG-SFG-NYM |
3 | Frank Robinson | 583 | 528 | 1956 | 1975 | 20-39 | 2772 | 11663 | 9939 | 1824 | 2928 | 72 | 1802 | 1409 | 218 | 1520 | 198 | 17 | 101 | 267 | 204 | 77 | .295 | .389 | .538 | .928 | 973DH8/5 | CIN-BAL-LAD-CAL-CLE |
4 | Harmon Killebrew | 573 | 290 | 1954 | 1975 | 18-39 | 2435 | 9833 | 8147 | 1283 | 2086 | 24 | 1584 | 1559 | 160 | 1699 | 48 | 0 | 77 | 243 | 19 | 18 | .256 | .376 | .509 | .884 | 357DH/49 | WSH-MIN-KCR |
5 | Mickey Mantle | 536 | 344 | 1951 | 1968 | 19-36 | 2401 | 9907 | 8102 | 1676 | 2415 | 72 | 1509 | 1733 | 126 | 1710 | 13 | 14 | 47 | 113 | 153 | 38 | .298 | .421 | .557 | .977 | *8397H/645 | NYY |
6 | Ernie Banks | 512 | 407 | 1953 | 1971 | 22-40 | 2528 | 10394 | 9421 | 1305 | 2583 | 90 | 1636 | 763 | 198 | 1236 | 70 | 45 | 96 | 229 | 50 | 53 | .274 | .330 | .500 | .830 | 36/H57 | CHC |
7 | Eddie Mathews | 512 | 354 | 1952 | 1968 | 20-36 | 2391 | 10100 | 8537 | 1509 | 2315 | 72 | 1453 | 1444 | 107 | 1487 | 26 | 36 | 58 | 123 | 68 | 39 | .271 | .376 | .509 | .885 | *53/H7 | BSN-MLN-ATL-HOU-DET |
8 | Willie McCovey | 458 | 287 | 1959 | 1975 | 21-37 | 2092 | 7977 | 6676 | 1081 | 1840 | 44 | 1296 | 1169 | 224 | 1251 | 66 | 5 | 59 | 134 | 22 | 20 | .276 | .386 | .538 | .923 | *37H/9 | SFG-SDP |
9 | Duke Snider | 407 | 358 | 1947 | 1964 | 20-37 | 2143 | 8237 | 7161 | 1259 | 2116 | 85 | 1333 | 971 | 104 | 1237 | 21 | 52 | 32 | 166 | 99 | 50 | .295 | .380 | .540 | .919 | *89H/7 | BRO-LAD-NYM-SFG |
10 | Frank Howard | 382 | 245 | 1958 | 1973 | 21-36 | 1895 | 7352 | 6488 | 864 | 1774 | 35 | 1119 | 782 | 135 | 1460 | 33 | 7 | 43 | 219 | 8 | 9 | .273 | .352 | .499 | .851 | 793H/D | LAD-WSA-TEX-DET |
11 | Norm Cash | 377 | 241 | 1958 | 1974 | 23-39 | 2089 | 7914 | 6705 | 1045 | 1820 | 41 | 1104 | 1043 | 112 | 1091 | 90 | 17 | 55 | 139 | 43 | 30 | .271 | .374 | .488 | .862 | *3H/97D | CHW-DET |
12 | Rocky Colavito | 374 | 283 | 1955 | 1968 | 21-34 | 1841 | 7559 | 6503 | 971 | 1730 | 21 | 1159 | 951 | 58 | 880 | 29 | 16 | 60 | 182 | 19 | 27 | .266 | .359 | .489 | .848 | *97/H31 | CLE-DET-KCA-CHW-NYY-LAD |
13 | Gil Hodges | 370 | 295 | 1943 | 1963 | 19-39 | 2072 | 8102 | 7030 | 1105 | 1921 | 48 | 1274 | 943 | 31 | 1137 | 25 | 56 | 50 | 165 | 63 | 31 | .273 | .359 | .487 | .846 | *3/H275984 | BRO-LAD-NYM |
14 | Ralph Kiner | 369 | 216 | 1946 | 1955 | 23-32 | 1472 | 6256 | 5205 | 971 | 1451 | 39 | 1015 | 1011 | 1 | 749 | 24 | 9 | 7 | 126 | 22 | 2 | .279 | .398 | .548 | .946 | *7/83H | PIT-CHC-CLE |
15 | Willie Stargell | 368 | 336 | 1962 | 1975 | 22-35 | 1753 | 7006 | 6164 | 955 | 1750 | 49 | 1197 | 718 | 177 | 1497 | 58 | 9 | 56 | 114 | 12 | 12 | .284 | .361 | .533 | .894 | *73H/98 | PIT |
16 | Yogi Berra | 358 | 321 | 1946 | 1965 | 21-40 | 2120 | 8359 | 7555 | 1175 | 2150 | 49 | 1430 | 704 | 49 | 414 | 52 | 9 | 44 | 146 | 30 | 26 | .285 | .348 | .482 | .830 | *2H79/35 | NYY-NYM |
More doubles than home runs:
Rk | Player | HR | 2B | From | To | Age | G | PA | AB | R | H | 3B | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | Tm | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Ted Williams | 521 | 525 | 1939 | 1960 | 20-41 | 2292 | 9788 | 7706 | 1798 | 2654 | 71 | 1839 | 2021 | 86 | 709 | 39 | 5 | 20 | 197 | 24 | 17 | .344 | .482 | .634 | 1.116 | *79H/1 | BOS |
2 | Stan Musial | 475 | 725 | 1941 | 1963 | 20-42 | 3026 | 12717 | 10972 | 1949 | 3630 | 177 | 1951 | 1599 | 127 | 696 | 53 | 35 | 53 | 243 | 78 | 31 | .331 | .417 | .559 | .976 | 3798H/1 | STL |
3 | Billy Williams | 415 | 422 | 1959 | 1975 | 21-37 | 2368 | 10106 | 8999 | 1374 | 2637 | 88 | 1434 | 987 | 167 | 1002 | 43 | 7 | 70 | 196 | 86 | 47 | .293 | .363 | .498 | .861 | *79D/3H8 | CHC-OAK |
4 | Al Kaline | 399 | 498 | 1953 | 1974 | 18-39 | 2834 | 11596 | 10116 | 1622 | 3007 | 75 | 1582 | 1277 | 131 | 1020 | 55 | 45 | 104 | 271 | 137 | 65 | .297 | .376 | .480 | .855 | *98HD3/75 | DET |
5 | Orlando Cepeda | 379 | 417 | 1958 | 1974 | 20-36 | 2124 | 8698 | 7927 | 1131 | 2351 | 27 | 1365 | 588 | 154 | 1169 | 102 | 4 | 74 | 218 | 142 | 80 | .297 | .350 | .499 | .849 | *37D/H95 | SFG-STL-ATL-OAK-BOS-KCR |
6 | Joe DiMaggio | 361 | 389 | 1936 | 1951 | 21-36 | 1736 | 7673 | 6821 | 1390 | 2214 | 131 | 1537 | 790 | 369 | 46 | 14 | 130 | 30 | 9 | .325 | .398 | .579 | .977 | *8/79H3 | NYY | ||
7 | Johnny Mize | 359 | 367 | 1936 | 1953 | 23-40 | 1883 | 7370 | 6443 | 1118 | 2011 | 83 | 1337 | 856 | 524 | 52 | 20 | 99 | 28 | 1 | .312 | .397 | .562 | .959 | *3H/9 | STL-NYG-NYY |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/31/2015.