This week on the MLB Network I heard the end of an interview with Danny Knobler, author of this 2015 book:
Numbers Don't Lie: Tigers
The Biggest Numbers in Tigers History
Knobler was stating that Ty Cobb had accomplished a home run (HR) feat that Babe Ruth had not: hit five home runs in two consecutive games. The young interviewer was impressed and the two sounded as if that proved that Cobb could have hit like Babe Ruth, i.e., hit for both high BA and also many HR.
The 2015 book on Cobb by Charles Leerhsen mentions Cobb hitting five home runs in two consecutive games on pages 326-7 but it is written in a convoluted manner and the reference lacks credibility as it is a recollection by a former sports writer in 1961 who did not write about it when it happened in 1925. Leerhsen does write that for the 1910 American League (AL) season the core of the ball was changed to make the ball more lively, which resulted in BA: Cobb .420, Shoeless Joe Jackson .408. Supposedly Cobb did not like the more lively ball because it made it more difficult for Cobb to bunt.
SABR bio of Cobb by Daniel Ginsburg:
a scientific hitter who liked to beat out bunts and infield grounders for base hits. After 1920, Cobb became a passionate defender of the Deadball Era-style of play, derisively mocking the "swing crazy" batters of the modern game who had neglected the inside strategies mastered by the Georgia Peach.
_____________________________
Through 1920 here are the career HR leaders:
Rk | Player | HR | From | To | Age | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | Tm | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Roger Connor | 138 | 1880 | 1897 | 22-39 | 1998 | 8847 | 7797 | 1620 | 2467 | 441 | 233 | 1323 | 1002 | 455 | 39 | 9 | 244 | .316 | .397 | .486 | .883 | *35/4879 | TRO-NYG-NYI-PHI-STL | ||||
2 | Sam Thompson | 126 | 1885 | 1906 | 25-46 | 1410 | 6525 | 5998 | 1261 | 1988 | 343 | 161 | 1305 | 451 | 234 | 63 | 13 | 232 | .331 | .384 | .505 | .890 | *9/783 | DTN-PHI-DET | ||||
3 | Harry Stovey | 122 | 1880 | 1893 | 23-36 | 1486 | 6832 | 6138 | 1492 | 1771 | 347 | 174 | 908 | 663 | 450 | 31 | 509 | .289 | .361 | .461 | .822 | 3798/1 | WOR-PHA-BOS-BSN-BLN-BRO | |||||
4 | Gavvy Cravath | 119 | 1908 | 1920 | 27-39 | 1221 | 4642 | 3951 | 575 | 1134 | 232 | 83 | 719 | 561 | 578 | 28 | 105 | 89 | 20 | .287 | .380 | .478 | .858 | *97/H83 | BOS-WSH-CHW-PHI | |||
5 | Jimmy Ryan | 118 | 1885 | 1903 | 22-40 | 2014 | 9124 | 8172 | 1643 | 2513 | 451 | 157 | 1093 | 804 | 491 | 83 | 65 | 419 | .308 | .375 | .444 | .820 | 897/6145 | CHC-CHI-WSH | ||||
6 | Hugh Duffy | 106 | 1888 | 1906 | 21-39 | 1737 | 7841 | 7044 | 1554 | 2293 | 325 | 119 | 1302 | 664 | 268 | 29 | 104 | 574 | .326 | .386 | .451 | .837 | 879/64532 | CHC-CHI-BOS-BSN-MLA-PHI | ||||
7 | Dan Brouthers | 106 | 1879 | 1904 | 21-46 | 1673 | 7676 | 6711 | 1523 | 2296 | 460 | 205 | 1296 | 840 | 238 | 105 | 20 | 256 | .342 | .423 | .519 | .942 | *3/7195 | TRO-BUF-DTN-BSN-BOS-BRO-BLN-LOU-PHI-NYG | ||||
8 | Mike Tiernan | 106 | 1887 | 1899 | 20-32 | 1478 | 6732 | 5915 | 1316 | 1838 | 257 | 162 | 853 | 748 | 376 | 41 | 28 | 428 | .311 | .392 | .463 | .855 | *978/1 | NYG | ||||
9 | Babe Ruth | 103 | 1914 | 1920 | 19-25 | 534 | 1948 | 1568 | 360 | 514 | 118 | 39 | 359 | 340 | 264 | 11 | 24 | 27 | 14 | .328 | .451 | .650 | 1.101 | 71/9H83 | BOS-NYY | |||
10 | Honus Wagner | 101 | 1897 | 1917 | 23-43 | 2795 | 11748 | 10439 | 1739 | 3420 | 643 | 252 | 1732 | 963 | 735 | 125 | 221 | 723 | 26 | .328 | .391 | .467 | .858 | *6935/847H1 | LOU-PIT | |||
11 | Ed Delahanty | 101 | 1888 | 1903 | 20-35 | 1837 | 8400 | 7511 | 1600 | 2597 | 522 | 186 | 1466 | 741 | 439 | 94 | 54 | 455 | .346 | .411 | .505 | .916 | *7384/695 | PHI-CLE-WSH | ||||
12 | Sam Crawford | 97 | 1899 | 1917 | 19-37 | 2517 | 10593 | 9570 | 1391 | 2961 | 458 | 309 | 1525 | 760 | 580 | 23 | 241 | 367 | 43 | .309 | .362 | .452 | .814 | *9837/H | CIN-DET | |||
13 | Cap Anson | 97 | 1871 | 1897 | 19-45 | 2524 | 11331 | 10281 | 1999 | 3435 | 582 | 142 | 2075 | 984 | 330 | 32 | 34 | 6 | 277 | 16 | .334 | .394 | .447 | .841 | *352/794681 | ROK-ATH-CHC |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 7/1/2015.
Generated 7/1/2015.
Cobb hit 117 HR in 11,434 AB. In 1920 and 1921 Ruth hit 113 HR (54+59). In 1927 and 1928 Ruth hit 114 HR (60+54). Of Cobb's 117: 46 were inside the park HR (IPHR) and 3 bounced over as was the old rule through 1930. So only 68 went over the fence on the fly.
Cobb led the AL in HR only in his triple crown season: 9 in 1909, all IPHR:
Cobb led the AL in HR only in his triple crown season: 9 in 1909, all IPHR:
1909 HRs | #car | #yr | #gm | Date | @Bat | Pitcher | Score | Inn | Out | RBI | BOP | Pos | WPA | Notes | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
12 | 12 | 1 | 1 | 1909-06-20 (1) | DET | @ | SLB | Rube Waddell | t 5 | 2 | 2 | 9 | IPHR | |||
13 | 13 | 2 | 1 | 1909-07-15 (2) | DET | WSH | Charlie Smith | b 1 | 3 | 9 | IPHR | |||||
14 | 14 | 3 | 2 | 1909-07-15 (2) | DET | WSH | Charlie Smith | b 5 | 2 | 9 | IPHR | |||||
15 | 15 | 4 | 1 | 1909-07-19 | DET | NYY | Pete Wilson | b 5 | 2 | 4 | 9 | IPHR | ||||
16 | 16 | 5 | 1 | 1909-07-29 | DET | @ | NYY | Slow Joe Doyle | t 7 | 1 | 9 | IPHR | ||||
17 | 17 | 6 | 1 | 1909-08-06 | DET | @ | PHA | Harry Krause | t 2 | 1 | 9 | IPHR | ||||
18 | 18 | 7 | 1 | 1909-08-27 | DET | NYY | Jack Chesbro | b 4 | 3 | 3 | 9 | IPHR | ||||
19 | 19 | 8 | 1 | 1909-09-01 | DET | BOS | Eddie Cicotte | b 1 | 2 | 9 | IPHR | |||||
20 | 20 | 9 | 1 | 1909-09-13 | DET | SLB | Chuck Rose | b 8 | 3 | 9 | IPHR |
Supposedly the ball was juiced again around 1920 and many other players in addition to Ruth suddenly started hitting a lot of HR.
Home Run hitting on steroids: 1920s? Tuesday, December 4, 2012
For purposes of this topic, I'll consider the modern HR record to have been set at 24 in 1915 by Gavvy Cravath who had led the National League (NL) the previous two seasons with 19...
While Ruth is playing like he's from another planet (You don't think ...?) he is not alone. Including Ruth, the 1915 record of 24 HR was broken 43 times in the 1920s.
________________________
Cobb played for the Detroit Tigers from 1905-1926 (ages 18- 39),then two years for the Philadelphia Athletics. Cobb was the Tigers Player/Manager for his final six seasons: 1921-1926 (.519).
Cobb reached double digits in HR twice, hitting 12 in both 1921 (507 AB) and 1925 (415 AB). In 1921 four of Cobb's twelve were IPHR. In 1925 all 12 went over the fence on a fly; none bounced over as was the old rule through 1930.
95 | 95 | 4 | 1 | 1924-08-31 | DET | @ | SLB | Elam Vangilder | t 3 | 1 | 3 | 8 | ||||
1925 HRs | #car | #yr | #gm | Date | @Bat | Pitcher | Score | Inn | Out | RBI | BOP | Pos | WPA | Notes | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
96 | 96 | 1 | 1 | 1925-05-05 | DET | @ | SLB | Bullet Joe Bush | ahead 1-0 | t 1 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 8 | ||
97 | 97 | 2 | 2 | 1925-05-05 | DET | @ | SLB | Elam Vangilder | tied 4-4 | t 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 8 | ||
98 | 98 | 3 | 3 | 1925-05-05 | DET | @ | SLB | Milt Gaston | ahead 11-8 | t 8 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 8 | ||
99 | 99 | 4 | 1 | 1925-05-06 | DET | @ | SLB | Dave Danforth | ahead 2-1 | t 5 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 8 | ||
100 | 100 | 5 | 2 | 1925-05-06 | DET | @ | SLB | Chet Falk | ahead 8-4 | t 9 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 8 | ||
101 | 101 | 6 | 1 | 1925-06-02 | DET | CHW | Ted Blankenship | tied 15-15 | b 9 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 8 | Walk-Off | ||
102 | 102 | 7 | 1 | 1925-06-09 | DET | @ | PHA | Slim Harriss | t 8 | 2 | 4 | 8 | ||||
103 | 103 | 8 | 1 | 1925-06-10 | DET | @ | WSH | Stan Coveleski | t 6 | 1 | 4 | 8 | ||||
104 | 104 | 9 | 1 | 1925-06-17 | DET | @ | NYY | Hank Johnson | ahead 9-0 | t 6 | 0 | 4 | 4 | 8 | ||
105 | 105 | 10 | 1 | 1925-06-18 | DET | @ | NYY | Urban Shocker | tied 3-3 | t 8 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 8 | ||
106 | 106 | 11 | 1 | 1925-06-25 | DET | SLB | Dave Danforth | b 1 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 8 | ||||
107 | 107 | 12 | 1 | 1925-10-04 (1) | DET | @ | SLB | Ernie Wingard | t 8 | 1 | 4 | 8 | ||||
1926 HRs | #car | #yr | #gm | Date | @Bat | Pitcher | Score | Inn | Out | RBI | BOP | Pos | WPA | Notes |
Cobb's last HR in 1924 was off one of the three pitchers off whom Cobb homered in one game. Note the dates: Aug. 31, 1924 and May 5, 1925. That's a huge stretch without hitting any HR. Cobb would then hit two HR the next day, May 6, 1925. That's the five in two consecutive games. Note also that Cobb hit six more HR in June 1925, then one final HR on OCTOBER 4, 1925. Let's look at Cobb's game logs.
1924:
Cobb played 27 games in September, all in CF, and had at least 4 plate appearances (PA) in each game. Cobb finished with 4 HR in 625 AB.
1925:Cobb hit 11 HR from May 5 through June 25, 45 games. Prior to Ma
y 5 Cobb had played in only 8 of the Tigers 19 games. Cobb would play 121 games that season. Cobb played in 69 games after June 25 but starting August 6 Cobb pinch hit (PH) a lot. Cobb PH and had only one PA in 16 games. In five games, only two PA. In four games, three PA. In 1925: 12 HR in 415 AB.
Let's take a look at the two consecutive big HR games.
Tuesday, May 5, 1925,, Sportsman's Park III
Attendance: 3,500, Time of Game: 2:44
Tigers 14, Browns 8
Tigers:
Ty Cobb CF: 6 for 6, 3 HR, 2B, CS
Heinie Manush LF: HR
Browns:
Baby Doll Jacobson CF: HR
Pitching | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | HR | BF | GSc | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Bullet Joe Bush, L (2-3) | 1.2 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 8.07 | 11 | 24 |
Elam Vangilder | 0.2 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 8.22 | 7 | |
Joe Giard | 1.2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 10.80 | 6 | |
Ed Stauffer | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 9.00 | 4 | |
Milt Gaston | 3 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 6.83 | 17 | |
Brad Springer | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 3.00 | 5 | |
Team Totals | 9 | 17 | 14 | 13 | 10 | 2 | 4 | 13.00 | 50 | 24 |
Wednesday, May 6, 1925,, Sportsman's Park III
Attendance: 3,000, Time of Game: 2:10
Tigers 11, Browns 4
Tigers:
Ty Cobb CF: 3 for 6, 2 HR
Harry Heilmann RF; 2 HR
Browns:
Gene Robertson 3B: HR, 2B
Baby Doll Jacobson CF: HR
Pitching | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | HR | BF | GSc | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Dave Danforth, L (0-2) | 6.2 | 13 | 6 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 5.02 | 34 | 24 |
Ed Stauffer | 0.1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 7.71 | 2 | |
Chet Falk | 2 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 16.20 | 13 | |
Team Totals | 9 | 18 | 11 | 11 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 11.00 | 49 | 24 |
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/1925.shtml
In 1925 the Browns hitters tied the Yankees for the most HR with 110 while the Tigers were sixth with 50; AL average: 67. Browns pitchers allowed the most HR: 99; Yanks second most: 78. Tigers third most: 70.
Cobbs victims in those two games:
Dave Danforth: led AL with 19 HR (159 innings)
Joe Bush: second most: 18 HR (209 innings)
Elam Vangilder: 11th most: 11 HR (193 Innings)
Milt Gaston: tied 26th most: 8 HR (239 innings)
Chet Falk: 2 HR (25 innings)
So what happened? Did Cobb intentionally swing for the fences in those two games to prove that anyone could hit homers? Why would Cobb wait so long to make that point? Was it just a coincidence that it was in the middle of a decade of unprecedented HR hitting? Why would he go back to being scientific, especially since Cobb was already 38 years old in 1925? How scientific was this:
1925 13 SB, 9 CS
1927 22 SB, 16 CS (led AL) while Ruth was hitting 60 HR?
Even at his peak (age 28):
1915 96 SB, 38 CS (led AL)
Cobb's SB record stood until Maury Wills broke it:
1962 104 SB, 13 CS (led NL)
In his career Wills hit only 20 HR in 7,588 AB, no HR hitter he.
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