Tipping pitches seems MUCH more prevalent than sign stealing.

Yes, breaking the rules to steal signs is cheating.

Throughout the sign stealing "crisis/scandal" I've written multiple times that my guess was that tipping pitches by the pitcher or one of his teammates was probably at least 90 percent of the times that a batter "knew" what pitch was coming.

I did a Google search on Andy Pettitte tipping his pitches as I had understood that he did in getting clobbered by the Arizona Diamondbacks in game six of the 2001 World Series, which Arizona won in seven games. I found many references, including this and note the date:

How Do You Win a World Series? It Helps If the Pitcher Tells You What's Coming
by DANNY KNOBLER OCTOBER 22, 2018 bleacherreport.com

Sometimes, you don't need the signs. Sometimes, the pitcher tells you what's coming...

"I think 90 percent of left-handers do something," said Eduardo Perez, who played and coached in the major leagues and now works for ESPN. "I'd say it's probably 50-50 with right-handers." ...

Two of the best-known instances of pitch tipping helped decide World Series.

In 2001, the Yankees led the Arizona Diamondbacks three games to two going back to Phoenix for Game 6. They needed one win from two games to wrap up what would have been a fourth straight World Series title.

Then the Diamondbacks scored six runs in two-plus innings against Andy Pettitte, sending him to the showers in the shortest of his 44 career postseason starts and setting up a Game 7 the D-Backs would win dramatically on Luis Gonzalez's single off Mariano Rivera.

It could have been just a bad game. But on MLB's international TV broadcast that night, former big league pitcher Rick Sutcliffe said Pettitte was signaling what pitch he would throw. Sutcliffe went on to call the next few pitches before Pettitte delivered them. And the next morning in the New York Post, George A. King III reported that Diamondbacks first baseman Mark Grace had noticed Pettitte was taking longer in the stretch before throwing a fastball than he was when he threw a curveball.

Then there was the 2017 World Series, which the Houston Astros won in seven games over the Los Angeles Dodgers. Yu Darvish started for the Dodgers in Game 7, and when he gave up two runs in the first inning and three more in the second, the game and the World Series were basically over. The Astros went on to win 5-1, and when they did, some of them gave credit to Carlos Beltran, who didn't even play in the game...

"Of course," said one American League scout when asked if Darvish tipped his pitches in Game 7. "Everybody has always had Darvish's pitches. But when he was really good, you couldn't hit him, anyway,"

And that's the other thing to remember about pitch tipping—or even about sign stealing, for that matter. Knowing what's coming might give the hitters an edge, but it doesn't guarantee success...

Hall of Famer Randy Johnson was another famous tipper. Hitters often could tell what was coming...

Frank Thomas was a good enough hitter that he ended up in the Hall of Fame, but when he was with the White Sox he had a reputation for never wanting advance notice of a pitch

Some players, it seems, feel more comfortable just seeing the pitch and reacting.

"That really boggles my mind," said Lloyd McClendon, the Tigers hitting coach. "If a guy's throwing a slider, I want to know."

Most hitters want to know.
_________________________________

John Flaherty (1992-2005) caught Randy Johnson when they were teammates on the Yankees in 2005 and faced Johnson in other years: 1994-1998. https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/batter_vs_pitcher.cgi?batter=flahejo01&pitcher=johnsra05

13 PA, OPS .523

Flahery has said that Johnson tipped all his pitches. Even if that is not literally true it suggests that in the Pettitte 2001 World Series game 6 both starting pitchers were tipping but with very different results.

Saturday, November 3, 2001

Attendance: 49,707

Venue: Bank One Ballpark

Game Duration: 3:33

Night Game, on grass

Diamondbacks 15, Yankees 2

		1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
	New York Yankees	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	0	0	2	7	1
	Arizona Diamondbacks	1	3	8	3	0	0	0	0	X	15	22	0
WP: Randy Johnson (4-1) • LP: Andy Pettitte (2-3)

Pettitte: 6 ER in 2 innings
Johnson: 2 ER in 7 innings

The very next day in game 7:

Sunday, November 4, 2001

Attendance: 49,589

Venue: Bank One Ballpark

Game Duration: 3:20

Night Game, on grass

Diamondbacks 3, Yankees 2

		1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
	New York Yankees	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	2	6	3
	Arizona Diamondbacks	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	2	3	11	0
WP: Randy Johnson (5-1) • LP: Mariano Rivera (2-1)
Winning Run scored with 1 out

Pitching	IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA	BF	Pit	Str	Ctct	StS	StL	GB	FB	LD	Unk	GSc	IR	IS	WPA	aLI	RE24
Curt Schilling	7.1	6	2	2	0	9	1	1.12	27	103	75	45	12	18	2	11	0	5	67			0.056	1.29	2.0
Miguel Batista	0.1	0	0	0	0	0	0	2.49	1	1	1	1	0	0	1	0	0	0		1	0	0.032	1.30	0.3
Randy Johnson, W (5-1)	1.1	0	0	0	0	1	0	1.52	4	17	12	8	2	2	1	2	0	0		1	0	0.074	0.68	0.8
Team Totals	9	6	2	2	0	10	1	2.00	32	121	88	54	14	20	4	13	0	5	67	2	0	0.162	1.22	3.

37 year old Randy Johnson relieved the day after throwing 7 innings and retired all four Yankees who faced him: Knoblauch to end the 8th, then Williams, Martinez, Posada in the 9th.

Johnson's teammates rallied in the bottom of the 9th for two runs against Mariano Rivera to make Johnson the winning pitcher in  games 2, 6 and 7. Rivera had the biggest blown save in baseball history and also the loss in game 7. Andy Pettitte was the losing pitcher in games 2 and 6.

Games 1,2,6,7 were played in Arizona, so maybe the Diamondbacks were stealing the Yankee signs but that's never been suggested. The home team won all 7 games. What's pretty sure is that at least in game six both starting pitchers were tipping their pitches.

Showing posts with label Signs.