From baseball-reference.com ad hoc query:
Click that link to view a report generated by baseball-reference.com. The criteria:
- seasons 1880 to 2012
- played 75% of games at 1B
- OPS+ at least 120
- at least 5000 plate appearances (PA)
- sorted by greatest Adjusted OPS+
45 players met the criteria, including the recently deceased Bill "Moose" Skowron.
Yesterday I was discussing with some friends Jeff Bagwell whom I never thought of as an all time great when he was playing. When I look at Bagwell's numbers he does appear among the top first basemen, especially among National League (NL) first basemen. Part of my attitude is that Bagwell hit so poorly in the playoffs. He hit well in only 2 of 7 series, not counting two series in which he had only 3 PA. In his only WS Bagwell batted .125: one single in 8 at bats (AB).
Since I d not trust defensive numbers, especially for the ultimate offensive position, I used OPS+. Bagwell is number 9 with 149, a shade above Willie McCovey (10) with whom we had compared Bagwell.
Someone had mentioned that we should not consider Johnny Mize, that Bagwell had twice as many PA, maybe 1.5 as many when challenged.
Mize 7,370
Bagwell 9,431
Mize is number 6.
The same guy did not like Roger Connor who is number 8 and had 8,847 PA.
If I drop those annoying Base on Balls (BB) and look at what they did in their AB, i.e., what was the slugging average (SLG)?
Bagwell remains number 9. Mize remains number 6. Oddly, McCovey drops to 14 in SLG. Who thought McCovey picked up brownie points for BB? Connor plummets to 27. I did not expect that, especially considering that when Babe Ruth set the career record for home runs it was Connor's record that the Babe broke: 138.
Still, Bagwell does not have much black ink, leading his league. Most of Bagwell's black ink came in the strike shortened 1994 season when he played only 110 games, 479 PA, 400 AB. Bagwell led NL: Runs, RBI, SLG, OPS, OPS+, Total Bases (TB). 1994 was Bagwell's only MVP season. Other NL black ink other than games played (1992, 1996, 1997, 1999):
1996 48 2B
1999 143 Runs, 149 BB
2000 152 Runs
Among the 45 first basemen with OPS+ at least 120 Bagwell was 8th in stolen bases (SB): 202. Not 300 as some one had suggested. Frank Chance stole 403. The careers of the seven ahead of Bagwell in SB all ended before 1931.
Bottom line: the only NL first basemen ahead of Bagwell in OPS+:
2. Dan Brouther
3. Albert Pujols
6. MIze
8. Connor
Jeff Bagwell is a Hall of Famer, I guess. But I'm still not enthusiastic.
3 comments:
So you'd exclude a player with 4999 plate appearances and an OPS+ of 150, but include one with 5000 plate appearances and a 120 OPS+? Why? And why not include base running? Maybe you'd be more enthusiastic about Bagwell if you included fielding.
Please identify all players "with 4999 plate appearances and an OPS+ of 150".
I mentioned base stealing.
I also stated that I do not trust the fielding numbers.
I'd be more enthusiastic about Bagwell if he played in the majors, not in Houston with little pressure and if he had his biggest season with more than 110 games played.
All this was in my original post.
Dave Orr had 3411 PA and a 162 OPS+. Prince Fielder is at 4299 with a 143 OPS+. Why arbitrarily exclude them?
There is more to baserunning than base stealing. BB-Reference.com has Bagwell at +29 runs as a baserunner and McCovey, for example, at -13 (but I suspect he was worse than that, given his low run scored total).
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