Alex Rodriguez April 19,2008 By Keith Allison via Wikimedia Commons |
Alex Rodriguez: liar, liar, pants on fire.
OK, now that we got that out of the way we can continue with the analysis.
Because of D-Day (Derek's retirement announcement) many will go all Derek Jeter on me. But as addressed in the two previous posts:
Who is the best hitter Jeter is better than?
Most plate appearances (PA) by a Yankee: Jeter 11,968. Simply looking at counts distorts Jeter's contributions and his Hit total, while impressive, is an accumulation. It's like claiming that Pete Rose was a better hitter than Ty Cobb because Rose had the most hits. Rose also made the most outs.
I'm going with OPS+, which has this in baseball-reference.com:
"Statistic Description: OPS+ 100*[OBP/lg OBP + SLG/lg SLG - 1] Adjusted to the player’s ballpark(s)"
OPS: "On-Base + Slugging Percentages" Note: they're not represented as percentages.
So OPS+ is OPS adjusted for year and park.
I understand that OPS has a slight bias favoring Slugging Average but it's more easily understood than more esoteric stuff and the relative rankings are pretty similar. See:
wRC+ v. OPS+ top 25 career. Wednesday, December 4, 2013
OPS+ is an average. So, a player like Jeter is hurt because of his long career. A full career will tend to follow a bell curve. A career cut short tends to benefit from using an average for evaluation. That would also apply to stints with a team but not a full career. Using counts hurts players like Joe DiMaggio who had short careers. In this post I am looking only at performance while playing for the New York Yankees. So, I will try to balance those conflicting dynamics.
I originally tried a query with a restriction of 5,000 PA minimum then ran it again for 4,000 PA for all Yankee batters all time. That lower threshold allows for the inclusion of Charlie Keller, Bobby Murcer, Bill Skowron, Tommy Tresh and others. This is cumulative data sorted by OPS+.
Rk | Player | PA | From | To | Age | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Babe Ruth | 209 | 9198 | 1920 | 1934 | 25-39 | 2084 | 7217 | 1959 | 2518 | 424 | 106 | 659 | 1978 | 1852 | 1122 | 35 | 94 | 110 | 117 | .349 | .484 | .711 | 1.195 | *97/8H31 | |||
2 | Lou Gehrig | 179 | 9663 | 1923 | 1939 | 20-36 | 2164 | 8001 | 1888 | 2721 | 534 | 163 | 493 | 1992 | 1508 | 790 | 45 | 106 | 2 | 102 | 100 | .340 | .447 | .632 | 1.080 | *3/H976 | ||
3 | Mickey Mantle | 172 | 9907 | 1951 | 1968 | 19-36 | 2401 | 8102 | 1676 | 2415 | 344 | 72 | 536 | 1509 | 1733 | 126 | 1710 | 13 | 14 | 47 | 113 | 153 | 38 | .298 | .421 | .557 | .977 | *8397H/645 |
4 | Joe DiMaggio | 155 | 7673 | 1936 | 1951 | 21-36 | 1736 | 6821 | 1390 | 2214 | 389 | 131 | 361 | 1537 | 790 | 369 | 46 | 14 | 130 | 30 | 9 | .325 | .398 | .579 | .977 | *8/79H3 | ||
5 | Charlie Keller | 152 | 4466 | 1939 | 1952 | 22-35 | 1066 | 3677 | 712 | 1053 | 163 | 69 | 184 | 723 | 760 | 481 | 10 | 19 | 50 | 45 | 23 | .286 | .410 | .518 | .928 | *79/H | ||
6 | Alex Rodriguez | 140 | 5657 | 2004 | 2013 | 28-37 | 1293 | 4829 | 910 | 1404 | 234 | 8 | 309 | 979 | 681 | 55 | 1080 | 97 | 0 | 50 | 130 | 145 | 30 | .291 | .386 | .534 | .920 | *5D/H6 |
7 | Dave Winfield | 134 | 5021 | 1981 | 1990 | 29-38 | 1172 | 4485 | 722 | 1300 | 236 | 35 | 205 | 818 | 477 | 53 | 652 | 8 | 9 | 42 | 155 | 76 | 36 | .290 | .356 | .495 | .851 | *97/8HD5 |
8 | Tommy Henrich | 132 | 5410 | 1937 | 1950 | 24-37 | 1284 | 4603 | 901 | 1297 | 269 | 73 | 183 | 795 | 712 | 383 | 34 | 60 | 62 | 37 | 19 | .282 | .382 | .491 | .873 | *93/H87 | ||
9 | Bobby Murcer | 129 | 4997 | 1965 | 1983 | 19-37 | 1256 | 4428 | 641 | 1231 | 192 | 29 | 175 | 687 | 491 | 50 | 564 | 17 | 14 | 47 | 81 | 74 | 48 | .278 | .349 | .453 | .802 | *89DH/756 |
10 | Bill Skowron | 129 | 4102 | 1954 | 1962 | 23-31 | 1087 | 3748 | 518 | 1103 | 173 | 44 | 165 | 672 | 278 | 29 | 588 | 35 | 9 | 32 | 129 | 14 | 13 | .294 | .346 | .496 | .842 | *3H/54 |
11 | Don Mattingly | 127 | 7722 | 1982 | 1995 | 21-34 | 1785 | 7003 | 1007 | 2153 | 442 | 20 | 222 | 1099 | 588 | 136 | 444 | 21 | 13 | 96 | 191 | 14 | 9 | .307 | .358 | .471 | .830 | *3/D9H7584 |
12 | Bill Dickey | 127 | 7064 | 1928 | 1946 | 21-39 | 1789 | 6300 | 930 | 1969 | 343 | 72 | 202 | 1209 | 678 | 289 | 31 | 51 | 49 | 36 | 32 | .313 | .382 | .486 | .868 | *2/H | ||
13 | Robinson Cano | 125 | 5791 | 2005 | 2013 | 22-30 | 1374 | 5336 | 799 | 1649 | 375 | 28 | 204 | 822 | 350 | 65 | 689 | 54 | 10 | 41 | 171 | 38 | 28 | .309 | .355 | .504 | .860 | *4/DH6 |
14 | Bernie Williams | 125 | 9053 | 1991 | 2006 | 22-37 | 2076 | 7869 | 1366 | 2336 | 449 | 55 | 287 | 1257 | 1069 | 97 | 1212 | 39 | 12 | 64 | 223 | 147 | 87 | .297 | .381 | .477 | .858 | *8D/9H7 |
15 | Paul O'Neill | 125 | 5368 | 1993 | 2001 | 30-38 | 1254 | 4700 | 720 | 1426 | 304 | 14 | 185 | 858 | 586 | 51 | 710 | 13 | 0 | 69 | 174 | 80 | 40 | .303 | .377 | .492 | .869 | *9/7HD3 |
16 | Yogi Berra | 125 | 8350 | 1946 | 1963 | 21-38 | 2116 | 7546 | 1174 | 2148 | 321 | 49 | 358 | 1430 | 704 | 49 | 411 | 52 | 9 | 44 | 146 | 30 | 26 | .285 | .348 | .483 | .830 | *2H79/35 |
17 | Earle Combs | 125 | 6513 | 1924 | 1935 | 25-36 | 1456 | 5746 | 1186 | 1866 | 309 | 154 | 58 | 632 | 670 | 278 | 17 | 74 | 98 | 71 | .325 | .397 | .462 | .859 | *87/H9 | |||
18 | Jorge Posada | 121 | 7150 | 1995 | 2011 | 23-39 | 1829 | 6092 | 900 | 1664 | 379 | 10 | 275 | 1065 | 936 | 78 | 1453 | 74 | 1 | 47 | 186 | 20 | 21 | .273 | .374 | .474 | .848 | *2DH/34 |
19 | Roy White | 121 | 7735 | 1965 | 1979 | 21-35 | 1881 | 6650 | 964 | 1803 | 300 | 51 | 160 | 758 | 934 | 66 | 708 | 29 | 53 | 69 | 123 | 233 | 117 | .271 | .360 | .404 | .764 | *7HD/89534 |
20 | Bob Meusel | 121 | 5543 | 1920 | 1929 | 23-32 | 1294 | 5032 | 764 | 1565 | 338 | 87 | 146 | 1002 | 349 | 556 | 20 | 143 | 134 | 102 | .311 | .358 | .500 | .858 | 79/5H83 | |||
21 | Joe Gordon | 120 | 4216 | 1938 | 1946 | 23-31 | 1000 | 3686 | 596 | 1000 | 186 | 38 | 153 | 617 | 481 | 508 | 19 | 30 | 97 | 68 | 48 | .271 | .358 | .467 | .825 | *4/3H6 | ||
22 | Tony Lazzeri | 120 | 7068 | 1926 | 1937 | 22-33 | 1659 | 6094 | 952 | 1784 | 327 | 115 | 169 | 1157 | 830 | 821 | 19 | 115 | 147 | 79 | .293 | .379 | .467 | .847 | *45/6H37 | |||
23 | Ben Chapman | 119 | 4018 | 1930 | 1936 | 21-27 | 910 | 3539 | 626 | 1079 | 209 | 64 | 60 | 589 | 404 | 362 | 20 | 51 | 184 | 93 | .305 | .379 | .451 | .830 | 789/54H | |||
24 | Derek Jeter | 117 | 11968 | 1995 | 2013 | 21-39 | 2602 | 10614 | 1876 | 3316 | 525 | 65 | 256 | 1261 | 1047 | 39 | 1753 | 164 | 89 | 54 | 272 | 348 | 95 | .312 | .381 | .446 | .828 | *6/DH |
25 | Thurman Munson | 116 | 5905 | 1969 | 1979 | 22-32 | 1423 | 5344 | 696 | 1558 | 229 | 32 | 113 | 701 | 438 | 59 | 571 | 42 | 21 | 58 | 160 | 48 | 50 | .292 | .346 | .410 | .756 | *2/DH9375 |
Rk | Player | PA | From | To | Age | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | |||||
26 | Tom Tresh | 115 | 4520 | 1961 | 1969 | 22-30 | 1098 | 3920 | 549 | 967 | 166 | 33 | 140 | 493 | 511 | 30 | 651 | 38 | 21 | 28 | 62 | 43 | 23 | .247 | .337 | .413 | .750 | 786/5H9 |
27 | Hank Bauer | 115 | 5374 | 1948 | 1959 | 25-36 | 1406 | 4784 | 792 | 1326 | 211 | 56 | 158 | 654 | 491 | 10 | 594 | 33 | 46 | 19 | 83 | 48 | 33 | .277 | .347 | .444 | .791 | *97H/82 |
28 | Graig Nettles | 114 | 6248 | 1973 | 1983 | 28-38 | 1535 | 5519 | 750 | 1396 | 202 | 20 | 250 | 834 | 627 | 55 | 739 | 31 | 8 | 62 | 115 | 18 | 25 | .253 | .329 | .433 | .762 | *5/HD6 |
29 | Tino Martinez | 113 | 4244 | 1996 | 2005 | 28-37 | 1054 | 3770 | 566 | 1039 | 189 | 11 | 192 | 739 | 405 | 42 | 546 | 27 | 1 | 41 | 103 | 17 | 10 | .276 | .347 | .484 | .831 | *3/HD |
30 | Gil McDougald | 111 | 5398 | 1951 | 1960 | 23-32 | 1336 | 4676 | 697 | 1291 | 187 | 51 | 112 | 576 | 559 | 8 | 623 | 36 | 97 | 27 | 93 | 45 | 44 | .276 | .356 | .410 | .766 | 456/H |
31 | Elston Howard | 110 | 5488 | 1955 | 1967 | 26-38 | 1492 | 5044 | 588 | 1405 | 211 | 50 | 161 | 733 | 342 | 72 | 717 | 24 | 26 | 49 | 148 | 8 | 13 | .279 | .324 | .436 | .760 | *27H/39 |
32 | Wally Pipp | 107 | 6356 | 1915 | 1925 | 22-32 | 1488 | 5594 | 820 | 1577 | 259 | 121 | 80 | 826 | 490 | 495 | 31 | 226 | 114 | 60 | .282 | .343 | .414 | .757 | *3/H | |||
33 | Willie Randolph | 105 | 7464 | 1976 | 1988 | 21-33 | 1694 | 6303 | 1027 | 1731 | 259 | 58 | 48 | 549 | 1005 | 29 | 512 | 28 | 75 | 54 | 171 | 251 | 82 | .275 | .374 | .357 | .731 | *4/HD |
34 | Joe Pepitone | 105 | 4115 | 1962 | 1969 | 21-28 | 1051 | 3841 | 435 | 967 | 113 | 24 | 166 | 541 | 223 | 50 | 413 | 19 | 8 | 25 | 94 | 31 | 23 | .252 | .294 | .423 | .718 | *38/9H7 |
35 | Hal Chase | 101 | 4466 | 1905 | 1913 | 22-30 | 1061 | 4158 | 551 | 1182 | 165 | 50 | 20 | 494 | 147 | 367 | 16 | 145 | 248 | 22 | .284 | .311 | .362 | .674 | *3/487615 | |||
36 | Red Rolfe | 99 | 5406 | 1931 | 1942 | 22-33 | 1175 | 4827 | 942 | 1394 | 257 | 67 | 69 | 497 | 526 | 335 | 10 | 42 | 14 | 44 | 20 | .289 | .360 | .413 | .773 | *5/6H | ||
37 | Phil Rizzuto | 93 | 6718 | 1941 | 1956 | 23-38 | 1661 | 5816 | 877 | 1588 | 239 | 62 | 38 | 563 | 651 | 1 | 398 | 49 | 193 | 2 | 107 | 149 | 58 | .273 | .351 | .355 | .706 | *6/H4 |
38 | Roger Peckinpaugh | 93 | 5263 | 1913 | 1921 | 22-30 | 1219 | 4555 | 670 | 1170 | 174 | 53 | 36 | 427 | 508 | 457 | 16 | 190 | 143 | 43 | .257 | .334 | .342 | .676 | *6/H | |||
39 | Clete Boyer | 86 | 4037 | 1959 | 1966 | 22-29 | 1068 | 3658 | 434 | 882 | 140 | 25 | 95 | 393 | 297 | 51 | 608 | 15 | 27 | 38 | 81 | 27 | 12 | .241 | .298 | .371 | .669 | *56/H4 |
40 | Tony Kubek | 85 | 4493 | 1957 | 1965 | 21-29 | 1092 | 4167 | 522 | 1109 | 178 | 30 | 57 | 373 | 217 | 24 | 441 | 13 | 71 | 26 | 62 | 29 | 23 | .266 | .303 | .364 | .667 | *6/7H58943 |
41 | Horace Clarke | 84 | 5143 | 1965 | 1974 | 25-34 | 1230 | 4723 | 543 | 1213 | 149 | 23 | 27 | 300 | 357 | 18 | 356 | 11 | 28 | 24 | 77 | 151 | 58 | .257 | .309 | .315 | .624 | *4/H65D |
42 | Frankie Crosetti | 83 | 7268 | 1932 | 1948 | 21-37 | 1683 | 6277 | 1006 | 1541 | 260 | 65 | 98 | 649 | 792 | 799 | 114 | 90 | 59 | 113 | 62 | .245 | .341 | .354 | .695 | *65/H4 | ||
43 | Bobby Richardson | 77 | 5780 | 1955 | 1966 | 19-30 | 1412 | 5386 | 643 | 1432 | 196 | 37 | 34 | 390 | 262 | 20 | 243 | 7 | 98 | 30 | 100 | 73 | 48 | .266 | .299 | .335 | .634 | *4/H56 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 2/14/2014.
The big four occupy the top spots. Keller squeezes in at number 5. Highest rank since number 3 Mantle is number 6: Rodriguez 140. Jeter is number 24 with 117. That is artificially low and will be addressed but the rank of Rodriguez is genuine given he is number 22 in PA with 5,657 and has played ten seasons with the Yankees.
Candidates for best Yankee since Mantle who retired in 1968; query starts in 1965 to include all of the Yankee careers of Murcer and White:
Even with only 4,000 PA required Hall of Fame players are excluded: Reggie Jackson, Ricky Henderson, Wade Boggs. However, Hall of Famer Dave Winfield is right behind Rodriguez. Jeter is number 10 on this list. One problem for Jeter is that some of his teammates are ahead of him: Rodriguez, Cano, O'Neill, Posada, Williams. Then there is the iconic Don Mattingly and the late captain, Thurman Munson. Several players, like Jeter, played their entire careers with the Yankees.
Mantle last had OPS+ over 150 and qualified to lead in an average in 1964 at age 32: 177; Mick led the league. Let's look at the twenty seasons since his retirement when a Yankee reached at least 150:
Bobby Ray Murcer! Murcer takes slots 1 and 7. Bobby was supposed to be the successor to The Mick but instead he was traded to the San Francisco Giants for the man who was supposed to be the successor to Willie Mays: Bobby Bonds, father of Barry, and number 19 on this list in his only season as a Yankee.
Henderson and Jackson are making a late bid.
Ranks of players with multiples:
Murcer: 1,7
Rodriguez: 3, 4
Giambi: 5, 8
Jackson: 5, 20
Mattingly: 8, 13, 13
Winfield: 11, 15
As you can see, Jeter is tied with Posada and Tartabull at number 16 with 153.
The Mick exceeded 150 eleven times: 221, 210, 206, 195, 188, 180, 177, 162, 162, 158, 151; led league 8 times.
When I noticed the lack of a huge hitter since Mantle while writing the two previous posts about whether Jeter is great, I paused to make sure I wasn't slipping into old fartism. I think that players today are better than ever in every meaningful way. But the reality for Yankee fans is that we were spoiled with four super players from 1920-1968: Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle. Unfortunately, since then the Yankees have had only one player who can reasonably be considered anywhere near that caliber: Alex Rodriguez. Reggie Jackson is in the ball park but not close.
I am influenced by the entirety of his career but what Rodriguez has done as a Yankee is very impressive on its own. A-Rod is the only Yankee since Roger Maris in 1960 and 1961 to win multiple MVP awards. The only other individual winners since Maris: Mantle 1962 (who was also MVP in 1956 and 1957), Howard 1963, Munson 1976, Mattingly 1985.
Whether Jeter should/could have won the MVP is interesting but irrelevant. Mantle should/could have won more than his three, including the two won by Maris.
A-Rod's Yankee OPS+ is 140; career 143. Mantle 172.
Peek career cumulative OPS+:
Mantle 177 1963-1964
Mattingly: 151 1986
Rodriguez: 147 2007-2009 (career, not just as a Yankee)
Murcer: 141 1972
Williams: 133 2002
White: 130 1971-1972
Posada: 124 2007-2009
Jeter: 122 2000-2001, 2006-2007
Donnie Ballgame maxed early but then dropped steadily. Jeter leads on longevity but that's it. A-Rod is the best Yankee player over all since Mickey Mantle. Bernie shows well and if you look at the annual Yankee leaders 1996-2012 listed in my previous post, Bernie Williams could be considered better than Jeter. The fact that Jeter peeked twice in career cumulative OPS+ is certainly a tribute to his consistency. Jeter's problem is that his peek is simply not all that high. He is one of the boys on Yankee teams with some very good hitters who often were better at the plate than Jeter. None more so than Rodriguez.
Generated 2/14/2014.
The big four occupy the top spots. Keller squeezes in at number 5. Highest rank since number 3 Mantle is number 6: Rodriguez 140. Jeter is number 24 with 117. That is artificially low and will be addressed but the rank of Rodriguez is genuine given he is number 22 in PA with 5,657 and has played ten seasons with the Yankees.
Candidates for best Yankee since Mantle who retired in 1968; query starts in 1965 to include all of the Yankee careers of Murcer and White:
Rk | Player | PA | From | To | Age | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Alex Rodriguez | 140 | 5657 | 2004 | 2013 | 28-37 | 1293 | 4829 | 910 | 1404 | 234 | 8 | 309 | 979 | 681 | 55 | 1080 | 97 | 0 | 50 | 130 | 145 | 30 | .291 | .386 | .534 | .920 | *5D/H6 |
2 | Dave Winfield | 134 | 5021 | 1981 | 1990 | 29-38 | 1172 | 4485 | 722 | 1300 | 236 | 35 | 205 | 818 | 477 | 53 | 652 | 8 | 9 | 42 | 155 | 76 | 36 | .290 | .356 | .495 | .851 | *97/8HD5 |
3 | Bobby Murcer | 129 | 4997 | 1965 | 1983 | 19-37 | 1256 | 4428 | 641 | 1231 | 192 | 29 | 175 | 687 | 491 | 50 | 564 | 17 | 14 | 47 | 81 | 74 | 48 | .278 | .349 | .453 | .802 | *89DH/756 |
4 | Don Mattingly | 127 | 7722 | 1982 | 1995 | 21-34 | 1785 | 7003 | 1007 | 2153 | 442 | 20 | 222 | 1099 | 588 | 136 | 444 | 21 | 13 | 96 | 191 | 14 | 9 | .307 | .358 | .471 | .830 | *3/D9H7584 |
5 | Robinson Cano | 125 | 5791 | 2005 | 2013 | 22-30 | 1374 | 5336 | 799 | 1649 | 375 | 28 | 204 | 822 | 350 | 65 | 689 | 54 | 10 | 41 | 171 | 38 | 28 | .309 | .355 | .504 | .860 | *4/DH6 |
6 | Bernie Williams | 125 | 9053 | 1991 | 2006 | 22-37 | 2076 | 7869 | 1366 | 2336 | 449 | 55 | 287 | 1257 | 1069 | 97 | 1212 | 39 | 12 | 64 | 223 | 147 | 87 | .297 | .381 | .477 | .858 | *8D/9H7 |
7 | Paul O'Neill | 125 | 5368 | 1993 | 2001 | 30-38 | 1254 | 4700 | 720 | 1426 | 304 | 14 | 185 | 858 | 586 | 51 | 710 | 13 | 0 | 69 | 174 | 80 | 40 | .303 | .377 | .492 | .869 | *9/7HD3 |
8 | Jorge Posada | 121 | 7150 | 1995 | 2011 | 23-39 | 1829 | 6092 | 900 | 1664 | 379 | 10 | 275 | 1065 | 936 | 78 | 1453 | 74 | 1 | 47 | 186 | 20 | 21 | .273 | .374 | .474 | .848 | *2DH/34 |
9 | Roy White | 121 | 7735 | 1965 | 1979 | 21-35 | 1881 | 6650 | 964 | 1803 | 300 | 51 | 160 | 758 | 934 | 66 | 708 | 29 | 53 | 69 | 123 | 233 | 117 | .271 | .360 | .404 | .764 | *7HD/89534 |
10 | Derek Jeter | 117 | 11968 | 1995 | 2013 | 21-39 | 2602 | 10614 | 1876 | 3316 | 525 | 65 | 256 | 1261 | 1047 | 39 | 1753 | 164 | 89 | 54 | 272 | 348 | 95 | .312 | .381 | .446 | .828 | *6/DH |
11 | Thurman Munson | 116 | 5905 | 1969 | 1979 | 22-32 | 1423 | 5344 | 696 | 1558 | 229 | 32 | 113 | 701 | 438 | 59 | 571 | 42 | 21 | 58 | 160 | 48 | 50 | .292 | .346 | .410 | .756 | *2/DH9375 |
12 | Graig Nettles | 114 | 6248 | 1973 | 1983 | 28-38 | 1535 | 5519 | 750 | 1396 | 202 | 20 | 250 | 834 | 627 | 55 | 739 | 31 | 8 | 62 | 115 | 18 | 25 | .253 | .329 | .433 | .762 | *5/HD6 |
13 | Tino Martinez | 113 | 4244 | 1996 | 2005 | 28-37 | 1054 | 3770 | 566 | 1039 | 189 | 11 | 192 | 739 | 405 | 42 | 546 | 27 | 1 | 41 | 103 | 17 | 10 | .276 | .347 | .484 | .831 | *3/HD |
14 | Willie Randolph | 105 | 7464 | 1976 | 1988 | 21-33 | 1694 | 6303 | 1027 | 1731 | 259 | 58 | 48 | 549 | 1005 | 29 | 512 | 28 | 75 | 54 | 171 | 251 | 82 | .275 | .374 | .357 | .731 | *4/HD |
15 | Horace Clarke | 84 | 5143 | 1965 | 1974 | 25-34 | 1230 | 4723 | 543 | 1213 | 149 | 23 | 27 | 300 | 357 | 18 | 356 | 11 | 28 | 24 | 77 | 151 | 58 | .257 | .309 | .315 | .624 | *4/H65D |
Even with only 4,000 PA required Hall of Fame players are excluded: Reggie Jackson, Ricky Henderson, Wade Boggs. However, Hall of Famer Dave Winfield is right behind Rodriguez. Jeter is number 10 on this list. One problem for Jeter is that some of his teammates are ahead of him: Rodriguez, Cano, O'Neill, Posada, Williams. Then there is the iconic Don Mattingly and the late captain, Thurman Munson. Several players, like Jeter, played their entire careers with the Yankees.
Mantle last had OPS+ over 150 and qualified to lead in an average in 1964 at age 32: 177; Mick led the league. Let's look at the twenty seasons since his retirement when a Yankee reached at least 150:
Rk | Player | Year | Age | Tm | Lg | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Bobby Murcer | 181 | 1971 | 25 | NYY | AL | 146 | 624 | 529 | 94 | 175 | 25 | 6 | 25 | 94 | 91 | 13 | 60 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 9 | 14 | 8 | .331 | .427 | .543 | .969 | *8/H |
2 | Paul O'Neill | 177 | 1994 | 31 | NYY | AL | 103 | 443 | 368 | 68 | 132 | 25 | 1 | 21 | 83 | 72 | 13 | 56 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 16 | 5 | 4 | .359 | .460 | .603 | 1.064 | *97H/D |
3 | Alex Rodriguez | 176 | 2007 | 31 | NYY | AL | 158 | 708 | 583 | 143 | 183 | 31 | 0 | 54 | 156 | 95 | 11 | 120 | 21 | 0 | 9 | 15 | 24 | 4 | .314 | .422 | .645 | 1.067 | *5/D |
4 | Alex Rodriguez | 173 | 2005 | 29 | NYY | AL | 162 | 715 | 605 | 124 | 194 | 29 | 1 | 48 | 130 | 91 | 8 | 139 | 16 | 0 | 3 | 8 | 21 | 6 | .321 | .421 | .610 | 1.031 | *5/6D |
5 | Jason Giambi | 172 | 2002 | 31 | NYY | AL | 155 | 689 | 560 | 120 | 176 | 34 | 1 | 41 | 122 | 109 | 4 | 112 | 15 | 0 | 5 | 18 | 2 | 2 | .314 | .435 | .598 | 1.034 | *3D |
6 | Reggie Jackson | 172 | 1980 | 34 | NYY | AL | 143 | 601 | 514 | 94 | 154 | 22 | 4 | 41 | 111 | 83 | 15 | 122 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 2 | .300 | .398 | .597 | .995 | *9D/H |
7 | Bobby Murcer | 169 | 1972 | 26 | NYY | AL | 153 | 654 | 585 | 102 | 171 | 30 | 7 | 33 | 96 | 63 | 7 | 67 | 2 | 0 | 4 | 6 | 11 | 9 | .292 | .361 | .537 | .898 | *8/H |
8 | Jason Giambi | 161 | 2005 | 34 | NYY | AL | 139 | 545 | 417 | 74 | 113 | 14 | 0 | 32 | 87 | 108 | 5 | 109 | 19 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 0 | 0 | .271 | .440 | .535 | .975 | *3D/H |
9 | Don Mattingly | 161 | 1986 | 25 | NYY | AL | 162 | 742 | 677 | 117 | 238 | 53 | 2 | 31 | 113 | 53 | 11 | 35 | 1 | 1 | 10 | 17 | 0 | 0 | .352 | .394 | .573 | .967 | *3/5D |
10 | Bernie Williams | 160 | 1998 | 29 | NYY | AL | 128 | 578 | 499 | 101 | 169 | 30 | 5 | 26 | 97 | 74 | 9 | 81 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 19 | 15 | 9 | .339 | .422 | .575 | .997 | *8/D |
11 | Dave Winfield | 159 | 1988 | 36 | NYY | AL | 149 | 631 | 559 | 96 | 180 | 37 | 2 | 25 | 107 | 69 | 10 | 88 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 19 | 9 | 4 | .322 | .398 | .530 | .927 | *9/HD |
12 | Rickey Henderson | 157 | 1985 | 26 | NYY | AL | 143 | 654 | 547 | 146 | 172 | 28 | 5 | 24 | 72 | 99 | 1 | 65 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 8 | 80 | 10 | .314 | .419 | .516 | .934 | *8/7HD |
13 | Don Mattingly | 156 | 1985 | 24 | NYY | AL | 159 | 727 | 652 | 107 | 211 | 48 | 3 | 35 | 145 | 56 | 13 | 41 | 2 | 2 | 15 | 15 | 2 | 2 | .324 | .371 | .567 | .939 | *3 |
14 | Don Mattingly | 156 | 1984 | 23 | NYY | AL | 153 | 662 | 603 | 91 | 207 | 44 | 2 | 23 | 110 | 41 | 8 | 33 | 1 | 8 | 9 | 15 | 1 | 1 | .343 | .381 | .537 | .918 | *37/9H8 |
15 | Dave Winfield | 154 | 1984 | 32 | NYY | AL | 141 | 626 | 567 | 106 | 193 | 34 | 4 | 19 | 100 | 53 | 9 | 71 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 14 | 6 | 4 | .340 | .393 | .515 | .908 | *98/H7 |
16 | Jorge Posada | 153 | 2007 | 35 | NYY | AL | 144 | 589 | 506 | 91 | 171 | 42 | 1 | 20 | 90 | 74 | 7 | 98 | 6 | 0 | 3 | 18 | 2 | 0 | .338 | .426 | .543 | .970 | *2H/D3 |
17 | Derek Jeter | 153 | 1999 | 25 | NYY | AL | 158 | 739 | 627 | 134 | 219 | 37 | 9 | 24 | 102 | 91 | 5 | 116 | 12 | 3 | 6 | 12 | 19 | 8 | .349 | .438 | .552 | .989 | *6 |
18 | Danny Tartabull | 153 | 1992 | 29 | NYY | AL | 123 | 526 | 421 | 72 | 112 | 19 | 0 | 25 | 85 | 103 | 14 | 115 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 7 | 2 | 2 | .266 | .409 | .489 | .898 | *9D/H7 |
19 | Bobby Bonds | 151 | 1975 | 29 | NYY | AL | 145 | 626 | 529 | 93 | 143 | 26 | 3 | 32 | 85 | 89 | 8 | 137 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 10 | 30 | 17 | .270 | .375 | .512 | .888 | *98D/H7 |
20 | Reggie Jackson | 150 | 1977 | 31 | NYY | AL | 146 | 606 | 525 | 93 | 150 | 39 | 2 | 32 | 110 | 74 | 4 | 129 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 3 | 17 | 3 | .286 | .375 | .550 | .925 | *9D/H |
Bobby Ray Murcer! Murcer takes slots 1 and 7. Bobby was supposed to be the successor to The Mick but instead he was traded to the San Francisco Giants for the man who was supposed to be the successor to Willie Mays: Bobby Bonds, father of Barry, and number 19 on this list in his only season as a Yankee.
Henderson and Jackson are making a late bid.
Ranks of players with multiples:
Murcer: 1,7
Rodriguez: 3, 4
Giambi: 5, 8
Jackson: 5, 20
Mattingly: 8, 13, 13
Winfield: 11, 15
As you can see, Jeter is tied with Posada and Tartabull at number 16 with 153.
The Mick exceeded 150 eleven times: 221, 210, 206, 195, 188, 180, 177, 162, 162, 158, 151; led league 8 times.
Mickey Mantle's plaque in the Hall of Fame via Wikimedia Commons |
I am influenced by the entirety of his career but what Rodriguez has done as a Yankee is very impressive on its own. A-Rod is the only Yankee since Roger Maris in 1960 and 1961 to win multiple MVP awards. The only other individual winners since Maris: Mantle 1962 (who was also MVP in 1956 and 1957), Howard 1963, Munson 1976, Mattingly 1985.
Whether Jeter should/could have won the MVP is interesting but irrelevant. Mantle should/could have won more than his three, including the two won by Maris.
A-Rod's Yankee OPS+ is 140; career 143. Mantle 172.
Peek career cumulative OPS+:
Mantle 177 1963-1964
Mattingly: 151 1986
Rodriguez: 147 2007-2009 (career, not just as a Yankee)
Murcer: 141 1972
Williams: 133 2002
White: 130 1971-1972
Posada: 124 2007-2009
Jeter: 122 2000-2001, 2006-2007
Donnie Ballgame maxed early but then dropped steadily. Jeter leads on longevity but that's it. A-Rod is the best Yankee player over all since Mickey Mantle. Bernie shows well and if you look at the annual Yankee leaders 1996-2012 listed in my previous post, Bernie Williams could be considered better than Jeter. The fact that Jeter peeked twice in career cumulative OPS+ is certainly a tribute to his consistency. Jeter's problem is that his peek is simply not all that high. He is one of the boys on Yankee teams with some very good hitters who often were better at the plate than Jeter. None more so than Rodriguez.
2 comments:
Going by who produced the most wins above replacement on offense, the best Yankee since Mantle is Jeter, and by a wide margin. Rodriguez is third. Since 1901, Jeter is fourth among Yankees by that statistic. Since winning is what it's all about, I'd go with that.
Since 2004 when A-Rod joined the Yankees, tops in WAR cumulative:
Rodriguez 52.5
Cano 45.1
Jeter 31.4
Gardner 23.1
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