Why look at BB/SO for batters, in this case for the top career HR hitters? It's the reverse of SO/BB for pitchers, which seems to resonate with many. The positive stat is used first to generate a positive number; here, more BB than SO for batters.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/
Strikeouts / Base On Balls
For pitchers, but nothing like it for batters. Why not? Here are the pitchers with the most career SO, sorted by SO/W (BB):
Rk | Player | SO | BB | IP | From | To | Age | G | GS | CG | SHO | GF | W | L | SV | H | R | ER | HR | BF | IBB | HBP | BK | WP | Tm | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Greg Maddux | 3.37 | 3371 | 999 | 5008.1 | 132 | 1986 | 2008 | 20-42 | 744 | 740 | 109 | 35 | 3 | 355 | 227 | .610 | 0 | 4726 | 1981 | 1756 | 3.16 | 3.26 | 353 | 20421 | 177 | 137 | 28 | 70 | CHC-ATL-LAD-SDP |
2 | Randy Johnson | 3.26 | 4875 | 1497 | 4135.1 | 135 | 1988 | 2009 | 24-45 | 618 | 603 | 100 | 37 | 7 | 303 | 166 | .646 | 2 | 3346 | 1703 | 1513 | 3.29 | 3.19 | 411 | 17067 | 37 | 190 | 33 | 109 | MON-SEA-HOU-ARI-NYY-SFG |
3 | Roger Clemens | 2.96 | 4672 | 1580 | 4916.2 | 143 | 1984 | 2007 | 21-44 | 709 | 707 | 118 | 46 | 0 | 354 | 184 | .658 | 0 | 4185 | 1885 | 1707 | 3.12 | 3.09 | 363 | 20240 | 63 | 159 | 20 | 143 | BOS-TOR-NYY-HOU |
4 | Bert Blyleven | 2.80 | 3701 | 1322 | 4970.0 | 118 | 1970 | 1992 | 19-41 | 692 | 685 | 242 | 60 | 3 | 287 | 250 | .534 | 0 | 4632 | 2029 | 1830 | 3.31 | 3.19 | 430 | 20491 | 71 | 155 | 19 | 114 | MIN-TEX-PIT-CLE-CAL |
5 | Don Sutton | 2.66 | 3574 | 1343 | 5282.1 | 108 | 1966 | 1988 | 21-43 | 774 | 756 | 178 | 58 | 12 | 324 | 256 | .559 | 5 | 4692 | 2104 | 1914 | 3.26 | 3.24 | 472 | 21631 | 102 | 82 | 21 | 112 | LAD-HOU-MIL-OAK-CAL |
6 | Tom Seaver | 2.62 | 3640 | 1390 | 4783.0 | 127 | 1967 | 1986 | 22-41 | 656 | 647 | 231 | 61 | 6 | 311 | 205 | .603 | 1 | 3971 | 1674 | 1521 | 2.86 | 3.04 | 380 | 19369 | 116 | 76 | 8 | 126 | NYM-CIN-CHW-BOS |
7 | Walter Johnson | 2.57 | 3509 | 1363 | 5914.1 | 147 | 1907 | 1927 | 19-39 | 802 | 666 | 531 | 110 | 127 | 417 | 279 | .599 | 34 | 4913 | 1902 | 1424 | 2.17 | 2.42 | 97 | 23405 | 205 | 4 | 154 | WSH | |
8 | Gaylord Perry | 2.56 | 3534 | 1379 | 5350.0 | 117 | 1962 | 1983 | 23-44 | 777 | 690 | 303 | 53 | 33 | 314 | 265 | .542 | 10 | 4938 | 2128 | 1846 | 3.11 | 3.06 | 399 | 21953 | 164 | 108 | 6 | 160 | SFG-CLE-TEX-SDP-NYY-ATL-SEA-KCR |
9 | Steve Carlton | 2.26 | 4136 | 1833 | 5217.2 | 115 | 1965 | 1988 | 20-43 | 741 | 709 | 254 | 55 | 13 | 329 | 244 | .574 | 2 | 4672 | 2130 | 1864 | 3.22 | 3.15 | 414 | 21683 | 150 | 53 | 90 | 183 | STL-PHI-SFG-CHW-MIN-CLE |
10 | Nolan Ryan | 2.04 | 5714 | 2795 | 5386.0 | 112 | 1966 | 1993 | 19-46 | 807 | 773 | 222 | 61 | 13 | 324 | 292 | .526 | 3 | 3923 | 2178 | 1911 | 3.19 | 2.97 | 321 | 22575 | 78 | 158 | 33 | 277 | NYM-CAL-HOU-TEX |
What, if anything, does that tell you about them? If something, flip it and apply it to batters.
This post is also another attempt to point out the silliness of distorting batting categories and putting into a less accurate pitching context. Two examples:
- hits per nine innings: Batting Average
- WHIP: Walks plus Hits per Innings Pitched: On Base Average.
If the relationship between BB and SO has meaning for pitchers, shouldn't it have as much for batters? In this case we're taking something that's been used for pitchers and applying it to batters.
The matrix is below and this link also contains the data and more.
Somewhat surprising is that Ted Williams has the best BB/SO ratio. Barry Bonds might have seemed likely because of all the BB he drew late in his career. But Williams has the astonishing 2.85 ratio: 2,021 BB and only 709 SO. If you're OK with best, then you should be OK with worst: Sammy Sosa .4029. As mentioned in the previous post, Mantle and Aaron are almost dead even; each had just a few more BB than SO.
In 1928 Babe Ruth became the career leader in SO, finishing the season with 919. Ruth retired in 1935 with 1,330, the record through 1963. The 1964 season increased the total for Mickey Mantle to 1,348; Mantle retired in 1968 with 1,770 SO. Mantle was the career SO leader through 1977 when Willie Stargell passed him. Stargell was the leader through 1981 when he had 1,912. Stargell played in 1982 and had 24 more SO but he was passed by Reggie Jackson, who finished 1982 with 1,966. Jackson retired after 1987 with 2,597 SO, which is still the record.
In 1930 Ruth passed Eddie Collins (1,499) for most career BB; Ruth had 1,566. Ruth retired with 2,062. Rickey Henderson passed Ruth in 2001 with 2,141 and retired in 2003 with 2,190. In 2004 Barry Bonds reached 2,302 and retired in 2007 with 2,558.
So Ruth had the career records:
SO: 1928-1963
BB: 1930-2000.
Ruth's BB/SO ratio was 1.55, about 1.5 BB for every SO.
Mickey Mantle passed Ruth in SO and had just a few more BB than SO, almost the exact same ratio as Hank Aaron: 1.037.
Let's consider those three batters.
Despite having many more SO than Aaron in many fewer AB, Mantle's lead in BB gives him the edge.
BB/PA:
Aaron 10.06%
Mantle 17.49%
Ruth 19.41%
SO/PA SO/Outs:
Aaron 9.92% 15.83%
Mantle 17.76% 29.75%
Ruth 12.25% 23.59%
So, Aaron's SO rate is better than Mantle or Ruth. However, his 10% BB rate hurts him. Aaron and Mantle have BA that are pretty close to each other but Ruth is well ahead of them. Here's how their BB impact their overall On Base Average:
BA OBA:
Aaron .305 .374
Mantle .298 .421
Ruth .342 .474
So, Aaron having fewer SO and a better SO rate does not make up for the sheer number of BB that Mantle and Ruth have. And Ruth also has a BB/SO rate of about 1.5 compared to about 1 for both Aaron and Mantle.
Comments on some other stats (bold = maximum, red = minimum):
Ernie Banks is Mr. Cub but Ernie takes a pounding in these numbers. Banks has minimum: OPS+, BB, BB/PA, (BB+SO)/PA. Being minimum in (BB+SO)/PA is a positive. It means that Banks put the ball in play a high percentage of the time.
Conversely, Jim Thome has max for negative stats: SO, SO/PA, (BB+SO)/PA, SO/Outs (41.30%), SO/HR.
The best SO/Outs: Mel Ott 13.40%.
Barry Bonds has the most HR and BB but does not lead in any rates.
Mark McGwire has good minimums: PA, AB, AB/HR, PA/HR.
Ted Williams has good minimums BB, SO/PA, SO/HR; and good maximums BB/SO and SO/PA.
The only maximum for Ruth is OPS+, which is the best to have among these stats.
In 1928 Babe Ruth became the career leader in SO, finishing the season with 919. Ruth retired in 1935 with 1,330, the record through 1963. The 1964 season increased the total for Mickey Mantle to 1,348; Mantle retired in 1968 with 1,770 SO. Mantle was the career SO leader through 1977 when Willie Stargell passed him. Stargell was the leader through 1981 when he had 1,912. Stargell played in 1982 and had 24 more SO but he was passed by Reggie Jackson, who finished 1982 with 1,966. Jackson retired after 1987 with 2,597 SO, which is still the record.
In 1930 Ruth passed Eddie Collins (1,499) for most career BB; Ruth had 1,566. Ruth retired with 2,062. Rickey Henderson passed Ruth in 2001 with 2,141 and retired in 2003 with 2,190. In 2004 Barry Bonds reached 2,302 and retired in 2007 with 2,558.
So Ruth had the career records:
SO: 1928-1963
BB: 1930-2000.
Ruth's BB/SO ratio was 1.55, about 1.5 BB for every SO.
Mickey Mantle passed Ruth in SO and had just a few more BB than SO, almost the exact same ratio as Hank Aaron: 1.037.
Let's consider those three batters.
Despite having many more SO than Aaron in many fewer AB, Mantle's lead in BB gives him the edge.
BB/PA:
Aaron 10.06%
Mantle 17.49%
Ruth 19.41%
SO/PA SO/Outs:
Aaron 9.92% 15.83%
Mantle 17.76% 29.75%
Ruth 12.25% 23.59%
So, Aaron's SO rate is better than Mantle or Ruth. However, his 10% BB rate hurts him. Aaron and Mantle have BA that are pretty close to each other but Ruth is well ahead of them. Here's how their BB impact their overall On Base Average:
BA OBA:
Aaron .305 .374
Mantle .298 .421
Ruth .342 .474
So, Aaron having fewer SO and a better SO rate does not make up for the sheer number of BB that Mantle and Ruth have. And Ruth also has a BB/SO rate of about 1.5 compared to about 1 for both Aaron and Mantle.
Comments on some other stats (bold = maximum, red = minimum):
Ernie Banks is Mr. Cub but Ernie takes a pounding in these numbers. Banks has minimum: OPS+, BB, BB/PA, (BB+SO)/PA. Being minimum in (BB+SO)/PA is a positive. It means that Banks put the ball in play a high percentage of the time.
Conversely, Jim Thome has max for negative stats: SO, SO/PA, (BB+SO)/PA, SO/Outs (41.30%), SO/HR.
The best SO/Outs: Mel Ott 13.40%.
Barry Bonds has the most HR and BB but does not lead in any rates.
Mark McGwire has good minimums: PA, AB, AB/HR, PA/HR.
Ted Williams has good minimums BB, SO/PA, SO/HR; and good maximums BB/SO and SO/PA.
The only maximum for Ruth is OPS+, which is the best to have among these stats.
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